In Conversation with Charlotte Smethers
We decide to meet in the RAM. It isn’t the most romantic of settings, but for Charlotte and me it holds a subtle charm; so many nights spent laughing and lamenting in equal measure, trying to put the world to rights as it crumbles ever more drastically between our fingers. I haven’t asked her about her work properly before, haven't explored it in such depth, so I’m excited. We get the goss out of the way first, test my phone’s shoddy recording quality- despite the noise from those around us, our voices are clear- and then the tone shifts. Charlotte sits up a little straighter, her features become more contemplative, and we talk.
Mercedes: Before we dive into your work, I wanted to ask how would you describe yourself as a writer?
Charlotte: Hmm, I think I like talking about unconventional characters and unconventional scenarios. I like exploring family dynamics which maybe… are a bit dysfunctional. I like very real issues and don’t do metaphors, really- that’s not my thing. Very dialogue heavy, I like what people show in conversation. The meaning of what you say, and what you don’t say. And dramatic irony, as well, I love playing with dramatic irony- it’s my favourite! I think it’s so clever… and I like leaning into that.
M: So yeah, that kind of does lead on to my next question which is about script and screenplay. So, what appeals to you about those forms that doesn’t about others? Is it just the dialogue, or are there other things too?
C: I guess it’s the contrast between the visual and the dialogue. You’re saying one thing, but I can see that that’s not necessarily how it is. And I think it’s fun to kind of have some characters who know some things and then maybe the audience knows something else so, you know, you kind of feel a bit silly- like oh no you lied! Or you feel a bit annoyed at the characters. You’re like: I know something that you don’t, and I’m annoyed that you don’t know this, or you feel sad for them. So yeah, I like doing that.
M: I mean, I get the overall impression from this, that you like, uh, manipulating characters?
[Both laugh]
C: Yeah, I want to tell you how you’re meant to feel - all the emotions.
M: Excellent!
[Both laugh]
M: Okay, so with regards to your writing specifically, I read one of your screenplays for a short film: “We Are Family, Shut Up”, about two sisters whose mother’s remarriage is a little rocky, to say the least. Could you tell me a little about your inspiration for it and what it means to you as a piece?
C: Well, I have a sister. [Laughs] So, everything I write is kind of loosely based on my relationship with my sister. Like, everything I write I imagine oh, what would my sister think of it, cause I know even if it’s a bit of a sadder piece or if it’s funny, I know she’ll get it, and I guess she is my target audience. Yeah, and I guess dysfunctional families, I feel like that’s the the world I come from and that relationship with my sister is what prevails. I’m confident I can talk about quite sad things, but I know that’s kind of a saving grace.
M: I really like that. I love the way that you’ve, sort of, focussed in on the positive of that relationship, and brought it to the fore, so that even when you do have all this other stuff going on you are, then, like at least they’ve got each other!
C: Exactly, at least they’re in it together! And I think also because I like to write tragedy/comedy, I think- cause I think deep down I do just want to delve into tragedy. [Laughs] I think it’s very therapeutic and someone has to do it, but the comedy just makes it much more accessible. And I’m like, okay, as long as I have something that’s funny about it or the tone is comical, I know I can access the darker bits as well. Which is deep down all I’ve ever wanted!
M: [Laughs] Yeah no, I guess… I mean it’s true what they say, that comedy is just tragedy with timing…
C: Oh boy, is it!
M: Yay! [Laughs in cynicism]
C: I think lots of writers do want to explore it, but I think, I know when I’m watching something I can go: no, you don’t know what that’s like- that’s not how it is. So I think it’s more about being able to write confidently. You’re maybe too scared to talk about tragedy and comedy together because you don’t know that, actually, the comedy is naturally what comes out of it anyway. It’s okay for you to laugh at this because that’s how it would be! Like me and my sister, we have a really weird humour, and we laugh about very sad things, but that’s normal. I hope.
M: That’s the interesting thing, like, when happy people write about, sort of like, sad things, like you can tell, because it’s usually dealt with with a gravity that is far too pronounced-
C: Yeah, it’s too sad!
M: Because like, most of the time people deal with sadness through comedy. It’s just a natural way of processing that information, so it’s cool that you weave that in.
C: Yeah, and also, I don’t know why you’d want to leave an audience just feeling sad.
M: No!
C: You’ve got to give them something
M: Give them some hope!
[Both laugh]
M: Okay, so to move on, I want to talk about some of the other things I liked about your work. I really like the way you use really brief character interactions to clearly define, like, that healthy relationship between the sisters, and the fact that it gives a model for family that is a lot healthier? The way that the sisters express their affection is very genuine, um, and it felt like a strong argument for earning love through loyalty and actually doing stuff for other people rather than sort of, like, the assumed connection that people sometimes have in family. Is that what you were aiming for with the piece or have I just completely-
C: Yeah, I think there’s truth to that, it’s kind of the way the world is set up, like, especially in our society everything is based on the family, like birthdays, christmas, family tickets - the assumption is that you’ll be with your family, but if you haven’t got that dynamic, you then go, okay well where do I even, how do I fit in? Yeah, I think it’s just giving a new perspective to people. Because you don’t see it when you have it, you can’t imagine what it’s like to not have it as well, so by telling a story and going: okay, well, they kind of have no choice but to have this sister relationship because they don’t have anything else. So, I guess it’s grown out of necessity because they need each other and it can say: okay yes it’s hard but it's not the end, that’s not all there is. There’s more to life than that. And I think that’s kind of what all my writing is about, there’s more to life than just this- life can also be good without this, there will be other people who are amazing and who you will form the most meaningful connections with.
M: I really like that- it’s such a lovely message. Especially like- and I think we’re getting a lot more of it like in I guess, media generally-
C: I hope so.
M: -nowadays. More found families that aren’t your kind of generic-
C: Like the nuclear-
Both: Yeah.
C: Like white picket fence!
M: Oh, I’ve always wanted a white picket fence!
C: That’s all I’ve ever wanted!
[Both laugh]
M: Cool, so I’m going to take a little segue and talk about the other piece of writing that you sent me, which is a sneaky preview of a one woman show which was…
C: It was called “Private Parts”.
M: Ah- “Private Parts”, yes! I- I loved reading that! And I guess, I think my main question regarding it, as someone who does like novels and things, was sort of like have you liked playing with the constraints of having one person on stage- what has that experience been like?
C: Ooo… I think it’s just, it’s just a lot more fun. The whole play is essentially about this woman and the voices in her head, and I just- I didn’t want to have other people representing the voices because it’s not like in her head there would be little people running around-
M: No…
C: -it would be a voice. And I think I wanted to make it clear that it was separate from what she was saying so that she’s almost arguing with the voice in her head, and also the idea that she’s going on dates with people who you can’t see on the stage, and it sort of makes you question, like, one, is she actually going on a date with these people, or is she just imagining all of this, but also it lets you know that you’re only seeing this from her very flawed perspective. So, I wanted just to make it very clear that she is unreliable, and you cannot trust what she says. She says very ridiculous things, so I wanted to make it absolutely clear that, you know, that’s not the truth and just let the audience figure that out for themselves. There will be a moment where they go: ah, that’s a very weird thing you said!’
M: [Laughs]
C: ‘I don’t know if I agree with your version of events even though I’m watching you say it.’
M: That sounds like a really fun dynamic to play with! And that date scene was very funny! I really enjoyed the sort of- I think as well, for me it felt like an interesting reflection on dating culture in some senses, because it's kind of, like, speaking into the void and hoping that you get something out of it. And she did not- [Laughs]
C: She did not, no.
M: Um, so I really like that. And then the piece moves on to a delightful…musical, rap number?
C: Spoken word poem!
M: Oh, spoken word poem- I’m so sorry. Could you tell me a little more about that scene, and how you see it fitting into the piece overall?
C: Well, her main agenda is to find a husband. It’s all she’s ever wanted. She’s a simple woman, she just wants a husband. And I wanted it to be so unbelievably ridiculous, because I guess that’s the way you enjoy it, but then you have that moment where you think: what is happening, what does this mean? You’re overwhelmed by the silliness of it!
M: So, are you more a fan of absurdist comedy?
C: Yeah.
M: Nice.
C: I think my rule with comedy is that it either needs to be, like, some form of social commentary, or it needs to be entirely bizarre and absurd. Otherwise, I think it falls flat, and I’m not really interested in it.
M: So what sort of media have you found the most influential to your writing?
C: I think definitely Phoebe Waller-Bridge. The first time I saw Fleabag I was like I want to do that, I want to write stuff like that. Because the way she wrote it, I had never seen it done before, like, that perfect blend of tragedy and comedy. Because it is very sad, but you don’t leave feeling sad. You laugh along with her. So I think that in terms of the social commentary side of comedy. And then Daisy-May Cooper’s Am I being Unreasonable? I May Destroy You by Michaela Coel. And in terms of, like, just weird comedy, Jamie Demetriou is my absolute favourite! I read an interview where he was basically saying that comedy is being too sophisticated, and that it’s trying to be way too intellectual so his goal was to do big stupid comedy and it having no meaning beyond just being funny and silly. I just love that. He’s so clever but so silly. You watch it for a good silly time, and then you go about your day unaffected.
M: I do like the wave of social commentary comedy that we have had, and I think like, I’ve only watched Stath Lets Flats, and even that does have elements of social commentary here and there, but I do think it’s nice to have something that isn’t quite as weighty when watching it.
C: Yeah, he’s not trying to change the world but it’s still important.
M: What’s next for you?
C: I think, annoyingly, I always have ideas for new things in my head, which I like to think are entirely separate, but when I really sit down to write it I realise it’s just a redraft of the thing before. Even though it seems completely different, it’s just because my ideas always start off so unbelievably complicated, and I forget that other people also have to understand what’s going on, so then I simplify it. I guess, probably the same thing- the two siblings. With the weird unconventional parent- what have they been up to! I don’t know. How are the sisters going to figure that one out? Just constantly getting curveballs!
M: Because I think like real sibling relationships, like, the one you delved into felt so authentic! I’m so sick and tired or siblings either being like just the kindest to each other all the time, or not vibing at all, because of course you vibe with your siblings!
C: I think the thing for me is that whenever I sit to write the sister character, I find it so hard trying to think of a new name for her. For the longest time I just called her my sister’s name, but I need to be less obvious. It would always be like there’s this girl, she has an older queer sister, strange parents… always.
M: Are you planning to give her a cut in any future profits you make?
C: Absolutely not!
[Both laugh]
C: Sometimes she’ll give me suggestions. She’ll be like: I just went on this date, it was terrible, you can write about it. And I’m like: no, I’m going to write about me! It can be about my sister, but my sister through me.
M: I love that! We love supportive siblings!